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><channel><title>kata Drew &#187; Michael Horton</title> <atom:link href="http://katadrew.com/tag/michael-horton/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://katadrew.com</link> <description>die klenar kesel kuchdal iwar</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:40:24 +0000</lastBuildDate> <language>en</language> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>Ephesians 4:11-12 and Every Member Ministry</title><link>http://katadrew.com/2011/ephesians-411-12-and-every-member-ministry/</link> <comments>http://katadrew.com/2011/ephesians-411-12-and-every-member-ministry/#comments</comments> <pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 02:27:16 +0000</pubDate> <dc:creator>drew</dc:creator> <category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Andrew Lincoln]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Ephesians]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Greek New Testament]]></category> <category><![CDATA[hapax legomena]]></category> <category><![CDATA[hermeneutics]]></category> <category><![CDATA[KJV]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Michael Horton]]></category> <category><![CDATA[ministry]]></category> <category><![CDATA[NIV 2011]]></category> <category><![CDATA[polity]]></category> <category><![CDATA[translation]]></category><guid
isPermaLink="false">http://katadrew.com/?p=13519</guid> <description><![CDATA[A friend emailed over the weekend with a question about the translation of Ephesians 4:11-12 and how it relates to the idea of every member ministry. It&#8217;s an interesting discussion to consider. So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets,...]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend emailed over the weekend with a question about the translation of Ephesians 4:11-12 and how it relates to the idea of every member ministry. It&#8217;s an interesting discussion to consider.</p><blockquote><p>So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up (Eph 4:11-12, <a
href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eph%204&amp;version=NIV">NIV 2011</a>).</p></blockquote><p>In this translation, the translators&#8211;like all translators&#8211;have made decisions that smooth over ambiguity in the original. In fact, a reading of the above may leave you wondering where the meat of the discussion is to be found. Well, compare the NIV 2011 above with the KJV below (or with <a
href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%CE%A0%CE%A1%CE%9F%CE%A3+%CE%95%CE%A6%CE%95%CE%A3%CE%99%CE%9F%CE%A5%CE%A3+4&amp;version=SBLGNT">the Greek New Testament</a>).</p><blockquote><p>And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (Eph 4:11-12 <a
href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eph%204&amp;version=KJV">KJV</a>)</p></blockquote><p>The difference lies in the way the three phrases of v. 12 are handled (and relatedly to the translation of <em>katartismon </em>&#8220;equip/perfect,&#8221; a NT hapax legomenon). The NIV 2011 (and all contemporary translations that I&#8217;m aware of) links &#8220;equip&#8221; (&#8220;perfect&#8221; KJV) with what immediately follows, &#8220;for works of service&#8221; (&#8220;for the work of ministry&#8221; KJV).</p><p>Thus, in the NIV 2011, Christ gave apostles, etc., for <strong>two</strong> things:</p><ol><li>to equip <em>his people</em> for works of service and</li><li>in order to build up the body of Christ</li></ol><p>but in the KJV, Christ gave<em> apostles, etc</em>., for <strong>three </strong>things:</p><ol><li>for perfecting (equipping) the saints</li><li>for the work of the ministry</li><li>for the edifying of the body of Christ</li></ol><p>The discussion of the relationship of Eph 4:12 with every member ministry is concerned with whether the first phrase &#8220;to equip/perfect&#8221; is linked to &#8220;works of service.&#8221; In other words, are <em>the saints</em> equipped by apostles, etc., for ministry or are the saints simply equipped by apostles, etc., but not for ministry.</p><h1>Caution in the Use of Ephesians 4:12</h1><p>I cannot settle the question of the best translation for v. 12 because I see compelling lexical and contextual reasons in favor of both renderings; but I would like to comment on the use of these verses in relation to every member ministry.</p><p>First, the Greek original appears ambiguous to me; thus, we get the different renderings of the NIV and the KJV.<sup
class='footnote'><a
href='#fn-13519-1' id='fnref-13519-1'>1</a></sup>  This is not a matter of textual criticism <em>per se</em> but a question of to which phrase to join another particular phrase, not always an easy choice. Reading v.12 in Greek presents both options to me. I would therefore caution against utilizing Eph 4:12 to decide definitively the question of every member ministry, whether for or against. Read, interpret and apply humbly, and with your brothers and sisters in Christ.</p><p>As a result, I&#8217;m not sure I can agree when Michael Horton writes, &#8220;Reflecting the actual construction of the Greek, the older translation [i.e., KJV] draws three lines of purpose clauses&#8230;,&#8221; as if the newer translations don&#8217;t reflect the &#8220;actual&#8221; Greek in some way.<sup
class='footnote'><a
href='#fn-13519-2' id='fnref-13519-2'>2</a></sup> Instead, I think it makes more sense to assert that reflecting the &#8220;actual construction of the Greek&#8221; would entail preserving the ambiguity of the Greek. Nor do I appreciate the uncharitable statement of commentator Andrew Lincoln when he remarks on this verse that it&#8217;s &#8220;hard to avoid the suspicion that opting for the other view [i.e., NIV 2011] is too often motivated by a zeal to avoid clericalism and to support a ‘democratic’ model of the Church.&#8221;<sup
class='footnote'><a
href='#fn-13519-3' id='fnref-13519-3'>3</a></sup> Why question the motive of every member ministry?</p><p>Secondly, I believe Michael Horton, for example, creates a false dichotomy between proper &#8220;ministry of the Word&#8221; and every member ministry.<sup
class='footnote'><a
href='#fn-13519-4' id='fnref-13519-4'>4</a></sup> He may have us believe that if a congregation is seeking to actively involve its members in the church&#8217;s ministries then there will be an undue exaltation of the people of the congregation to the detriment of the ministry of the word. This does not necessarily follow. Surely a local body can both prize the involvement of its members <em>and</em> prize the ministry of the word&#8211;unless, of course, there is something unscriptural about involving members, but I do not think this can be determined on the witness of Eph 4:11-12 alone.</p><p>Thirdly, what is &#8220;every member ministry&#8221; anyways?! Is it giving Joe Pew the pulpit on a Sunday? Or, simply allowing Mrs. Pew to bake bread and wash feet? Is every member ministry simply allowing each member to utilize his or her own God-given giftings? If so, has Horton set up a straw man of every member ministry, one which usurps the ministry of the word?</p><h3>Footnotes</h3><div
class='footnotes'><div
class='footnotedivider'></div><ol><li
id='fn-13519-1'>It is interesting to note, however, that according to Michael Horton, &#8220;the more recent translation does not even occur to&#8221; John Calvin in his commentary on Ephesians. Horton, Michael S. (2010). <em>The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on the Way</em>. Zondervan. Kindle Edition, loc. 24041. <span
class='footnotereverse'><a
href='#fnref-13519-1'>&#8617;</a></span></li><li
id='fn-13519-2'>Horton, loc. 23646. <span
class='footnotereverse'><a
href='#fnref-13519-2'>&#8617;</a></span></li><li
id='fn-13519-3'>Lincoln, Andrew T., <em>Ephesians </em>(WBC; Dallas: Word, 1990), 253, quoted in Horton, loc. 24041. <span
class='footnotereverse'><a
href='#fnref-13519-3'>&#8617;</a></span></li><li
id='fn-13519-4'>&#8220;The same officers who are given for the completion (not equipping) of the saints are also given for the work of ministry and edification of the body. On this reading, Christ has given apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors and teachers for the ministry of the Word that brings the whole body to unity, maturity and completion in the truth. This is not to say that the body is complete in and through these offices alone, for there are other gifts mentioned elsewhere (esp. Ro 12 and 1Co 12). However, the focus here is restricted to that work of bringing unity and maturity to the body through sound doctrine&#8221; (Horton, loc. 23646). <span
class='footnotereverse'><a
href='#fnref-13519-4'>&#8617;</a></span></li></ol></div> ]]></content:encoded> <wfw:commentRss>http://katadrew.com/2011/ephesians-411-12-and-every-member-ministry/feed/</wfw:commentRss> <slash:comments>1</slash:comments> </item> <item><title>What I Listened to This Week</title><link>http://katadrew.com/2008/what-i-listened-to-this-week-2/</link> <comments>http://katadrew.com/2008/what-i-listened-to-this-week-2/#comments</comments> <pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:58:01 +0000</pubDate> <dc:creator>drew</dc:creator> <category><![CDATA[Music]]></category> <category><![CDATA[abortion]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Al Mohler]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Drew Marshall]]></category> <category><![CDATA[election]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Flame]]></category> <category><![CDATA[hip hop]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Michael Horton]]></category> <category><![CDATA[MP3]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Russel Moore]]></category> <category><![CDATA[SBTS]]></category> <category><![CDATA[SEBTS]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Weekly Review]]></category> <category><![CDATA[White Horse Inn]]></category><guid
isPermaLink="false">http://katadrew.com/?p=558</guid> <description><![CDATA[It&#8217;s been a while since I&#8217;ve done a weekly review post; but since I&#8217;ve listened to some rather impressive things this week, I wanted to fill you in with the goods: Upon recommendation I bought Flame&#8217;s latest album entitled Our...]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a while since I&#8217;ve done a weekly review post; but since I&#8217;ve listened to some rather impressive things this week, I wanted to fill you in with the goods:</p><ol><li>Upon <a
href="http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=2663" target="_blank">recommendation</a> I bought Flame&#8217;s latest album entitled <em><a
href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013TUKR0?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=katadrew-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=B0013TUKR0">Our World Redeemed</a><img
style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=katadrew-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=B0013TUKR0" border="0" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></em>. Amazing Christian rap. I especially like the last track, Joyful Noise, and number seven, Hold On. Deeply and richly biblical. Powerful.</li><li>Dr. Russell Moore <a
href="http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/10/counterculture-of-life-in-church.html" target="_blank">presented</a> a very moving treatise against abortion from the first chapters of the Gospel of Matthew in Southern Seminary chapel on October 16 entitled &#8220;Joseph Is a Single-Issue Evangelical: The Father of Jesus, the Cries of the Helpless, and Change You Can Believe In.&#8221; Definitely worth your time. <a
href="http://www.sbts.edu/MP3/fall2008/20081016moore.mp3" target="_blank">Download the MP3</a>.</li><li>Al Mohler just today preached a very timely message here in Southeastern chapel on <em>How Not to Raise a Pagan</em> from Deuteronomy 6. Listen to the MP3 or watch the video (MP4). Your children need to know that &#8220;God kills people.&#8221;</li><li>On the latest edition of <a
href="http://www.whitehorseinn.org/" target="_blank">The White Horse Inn</a> Dr. Michael Horton and company give unique <a
href="http://swn.edgeboss.net/download/swn/saved/oneplace/mp3/2788992/wi20081102.mp3?siteid=Podcast">Election Coverage</a>. No mention of Obama or McCain here; only the biblical concept of election presented from a decidedly reformed standpoint with plenty of helpful discussion.</li><li>If you listen to nothing else from this list, <a
href="http://www.drewmarshall.ca/audio/081025burlcain.mp3">download the interview</a> with Burl Cain, Warden of Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola, 											on <a
href="http://www.drewmarshall.ca/listen2008.html#081025" target="_blank">The Drew Marshall Show</a>. The testimony of the power of the gospel to transform lives that is taking place <em>right now</em> at this prison in Louisiana will astound you. It could only be God.</li></ol> ]]></content:encoded> <wfw:commentRss>http://katadrew.com/2008/what-i-listened-to-this-week-2/feed/</wfw:commentRss> <slash:comments>3</slash:comments> <enclosure
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